We received a letter requesting permission to enter our small farm. My husband and I worked hard to purchase a small property that we could raise our family and eventually start a small business. We have not only invested thousands but built a home. We were married on this property, started homesteading and planning to make this home a bussiness as well. We have beloved family pets buried here. Our daughter is being raised here. We use this land to feed our family. We were building something we could be proud of and to pass down to our child. Now we wonder if we should even repair a fence.
Regardless if they only build nearby the vibrations and noise will impact our livestock and quality of life. Animals are extremely sensitive especially birds.
The local multi generational farmers will be severely impacted. The land will be fragmented and potentially cause them to no longer be profitable.
On a financial side it will decrease our property values and the local real estate will be non existent.
On an environmental side we have a river and a creek that run through our property. There are fish, moose, ducks, bald eagles, owls, fox and many other animals that we frequently see on the property. The Alto train would destroy crutial habitats and push wild life away.
This would further impact local fishing and hunting. Game would be stuck on one side or the other limiting breeding and travel.
We have integrated into local Agriculture Societies and community groups. This train does not provide benefits to our municipalities. It would only benefit those who live in large cities. We wouldn’t even have close access to use it.
This train would fragment local population access. It would cause detours and delays for emergency services, school routes and local travel. It would diminish local recreation such as snowmobiling and ATV trails that would be inaccessible.
With the changes made to expropriation laws we wouldn’t even be entitled to a public hearing or prior negotiations. “Fair market” value would not compensate moving ourselves and boarding a large number of animals, construction of new enclosures, inevitable vet bills for the stress caused to these animals and much more. We wouldn’t even be guaranteed to find a comparable property with what they deem as “fair market value”. This is a large missuse of taxpayer funds. Jobs are being cut in hospitals (400 in Ottawa alone). Health care is suffering. People are dying waiting for surgery. Doctors are leaving Canada. Inflation is through the roof making families choose between eating or electricity. The homeless issue is rampant. There is a housing shortage. The wait lists for subsidized housing are so long that people are waiting over ten years without local or special priority. Yet the decision has been made to spend countless billions on a train and not these more important issues. If Ottawa is unable to build a reliable and profitable LRT system how can they promise a reliable and profitably high speed rail system.
I fear the world my daughter will grow up in if this is our priorities. Canada used to be a place to be proud of. Our appointed officials are no longer acting in our best interest and that is beyond scary.
Edited
Like
Karl
6d ago
I don't care about these hick farmers and their intergenerational land. Inheriting large parcels of land already create systemic problems in the forms of lobbying and disproportionate political influence. A highspeed rail system connects huge population centers together and incentivizes people away from using their cars and booking flights, all of which is awful for the environment and the air we breathe. We simply can't keep relying on auto transport for everything, its expensive to maintain and build new highways and to own a car. This country continues to build highways and large subdivisions that are bad for ecosystems, but when it's something like a clean rail system its like pulling teeth. Enough, welcome to the 21st century. People on farm land act all high and mighty with their prejudice on "city people" while owning large pieces of land. They are more elite, more privileged than the majority of people who want to use an efficient rail system. Think about the senior who can't drive anymore who wants to visit family, the student who can't afford a car who is going to a new university.
So tired of this "noble farmer" narrative. Canada has been condemned by the UN for contemporary forms of slavery, most of which come from farms, some of which are along this corridor.
Like
eric2026
5d ago
Replying to
I guess we're screwed when someone thinks that Canada has 'contemporary forms of slavery' on our farms.
Oil pipelines, which would be cash cows, are effectively a no-go because of the long list of pre-conditions which cannot realistically be met. The shiny object, Alto HSR on the other hand, is getting rammed through while C-15 strips away landowners rights.
I spoke with an aide to my Liberal MP yesterday. She brought up that this project is going to generate $35 billion annually in revenue. I challenged her on that as the CD Howe Institute's own study says $11 billion to $27 billion in revenue...over 60 years! This works out to $183 million and $450 million in projected revenue.
These paltry numbers must be considered against the $90 BILLION cost of construction. And 100%, this project will be way over budget. So do the math. This is going to be very costly for ALL taxpayers.
'Hick farmers' , pretty insulting to the people that produce your food and who are already getting crushed by taxes and red tape.
Like
Jim
6d ago
It would be a great idea for Alt-No to coordinate support against Pipeline expansion out west hat goes through indigenous lands, and also against the proposed 5% of GDP on military spending going towards larger Navy ships and f-35 jets. Those projects benefit the elite disproportionally even more than Alto!
Like
eric2026
5d ago
Replying to
It's your guy Carney that is spending like the proverbial drunken sailor, just as Trudeau did before him.
Carney the banker is in this to enrich himself, full stop. Pipelines will generate lots of revenue, HSR will not.
What Was Said — and What Was Later Admitted
1
Steel and the “Build by Canada” Claim
PM Trudeau — AnnouncementFebruary 19, 2025 · Responding to a question about Canadian manufacturing content
“Just think about the 4,000 km of steel rail that we’re going to need to lay. That’s steel, aluminum, copper — resources we have that we can use here in Canada.”
Presented as evidence of ALTO’s “Build by Canada” economic benefit. The implication was that Canadian steel would build this railway.
CEO Imbleau — Empire ClubJanuary 22, 2026 · Eleven months later, same 4,000 km figure
“Not one single meter of steel tracks are being produced in Canada.”
Disclosed to an industry audience that included the construction companies expected to bid on contracts. No correction to the original claim was made publicly.
The research published on this site uses AI-enhanced research tools, with review and validation by both subject-matter experts and non-expert citizens. We are united by a shared commitment to improving transparency and making reliable, evidence-based information available to all stakeholders in the ALTO high-speed rail planning process — landowners, municipalities, policymakers, and the broader public.
I urge everyone who wants to comment for or against this project to read up on it first. There are many things to be learned - it’s a complicated project.
Like
Jim
Mar 15
Replying to
Hi Eva,
I am willing to hear your concerns. But I will be honest that anything generated with AI is at best unreliable, and at worst designed to act as a confirmation bias generator. I'd be happy to respond to your concerns here. But AI research isn't research, it's a computer telling you what you want to hear, that is explicitly how they're designed to operate.
Like
Jason
Mar 11
Unfortunately, it seems the same people who are the most vocal about opposing this project are the same ones who opposed vaccine and mask mandates during the pandemic. Using the same conspiratorial language of division. This doesnt bode well if you want to be taken seriously.
Like
Sam
Mar 26
Replying to
AI generated research no doubt
Like
eric2026
Apr 04
Replying to
There are legitimate concerns about this high speed rail project, just as there were legitimate concerns about vaccine mandates. This high speed rail seems like a vanity project for the Liberals. I suspect you might change your tune if you were at risk of having your home and property expropriated. This entire project sounds like Mirabel 2.0. The government made grandiose predictions for that project, none of which came to fruition.
This project is most certainly going to go way over budget and won't pay for itself. It's estimated to generate as much as 27 billion over 60 years, which will be but a fraction of the cost to build it.
Like
Claire harrison
Mar 08
Personal impact story. One of the possible routes would run through my backyard. I would be between the trail and the lake with no crossing. The complete north shore of our lake would be cut off. Therefore expropriation. These properties cannot be replaced
I am all for the greater good. However this is not the case. It is for the benefit of the elite at the expense of the rest of us.
Like
Jim
Mar 12
Replying to
Hey Claire,
Have you gone to any of the open houses with Alto to make this concern known? Also, I would love to know (roughly) where this is, because I could probably give you an educated guess on whether they will actually be transiting in that area.
Like
eric2026
Apr 04
Replying to
This project may only benefit a small portion of the country.
Perhaps you should be asking why spend 90 billion on this when the number of food banks has literally doubled in the last ten years?
Like
PerthFarm
Mar 08
1. There is no real business case for the project. The need for the passenger rail system is not evident in terms of use and ridership, and the clear and robust statement of need is essential for such a project to succeed. In other nations the high speed rail (HSR) generally links with local rail networks and other transport systems. This needs to come first, before a HSR system is viable, so helping to improve local networks as well as the existing VIA service and CN's infrastructure is actually a more far sighted approach at this time.
2. All proposed routes for the HSR tracks would cut through sensitive habitats and farmland, which once the work starts are gone forever. The Frontenac arch is especially concerning. The project has potential to obliterate important ecosystems. Environmental studies are scheduled to come after the route choices which is too late for them to have an impact, where only mitigation is then an option. Fertile farmland is scarce in Ontario and disappearing year upon year, which has implications for agricultural outputs and food costs. This project hastens the disappearance.
3. The "models" discussed at the ALTO consultation last week are based on other nations with different infrastructures, climates and cultures. The stations are most often located downtown and these HSR examples do not seem comparable to Canada in many ways. The failed and failing rail projects across the world were not being discussed and the ALTO staff seemed unaware of them. Nearer to home, lessons should be learned from the LRT in Ottawa, which still doesn't function properly, due to the short-sighted "lowest cost compliant" procurement, incompetent placement of contracts and building a first of a kind, untested system in a harsh environment. The HSR is a huge and complex project so decisions need solid information behind them, especially those being made in the early stages where there is still time to change things relatively easily and cheaply. I am concerned that the planning and early development of this project is being rushed, with inadequate public information and discussion. The project schedule, especially this early planning stage, needs to slow down for considered and robust decisions to be made for Canadians.
4. Bill C-15 enables land expropriation for the project to occur swiftly, with no challenges from owners. This seems wrong, especially because this will occur very early in the project, where many of the details are still to be decided. The Pickering and Mirabel airport expropriations come to mind, and the harm it has caused to individuals and communities for little to no benefits. There is a risk of these past situations sadly applying to this HSR project and the expropriation approach needs to be reconsidered
Edited
Like
eric2026
Apr 04
Replying to
The same government that firmly said there was no business case to sell natural gas to Germany and Japan when they came begging for it.
Like
LanarkFarmer
Apr 04
Replying to
1- 60% of Canada's population may live in these urban centers but certainly will not be using the HSR. That figure seems to be deliberately misleading. What will happen to VIA once it loses ridership to HSR? All the smaller communities will be left without any rail service unless they want to drive to the city and get the train from there. It would seem a stronger business case to invest the money in VIA rail to maintain rail service for smaller communities while adding express trains between major centers.
2-If the plan is to use the Peterborough Hydro Corridor then why have such a massive swath of land on the Alto map? Even if that is the case it will have tremendous effects on habitat and farming operations. It is basically an impassible wall from Ottawa to Peterborough with exactly how many crossings? And for wildlife??
3- It is not just accommodating a few dozen people. How many expropriations are we talking about? Thousands?
How many roads cut off? Thousands? How many communities cut in half? How many people cut off from emergency services and hospitals? And to call this project "off the shelf" is about as disingenuous and misleading as you can get.
4-Bill C-15 also takes away Canadians right to have their voice heard in a public forum making it easy for the government to act without public scrutiny. It is a complete overreach intended to stifle public awareness.
Efficient and importantly affordable rail travel may very well be a good or great thing for Canada but to rush ahead with this project amid so much opposition and with so little public consultation makes no sense. Invest the money in existing infrastructure. Turn VIA rail into a world class rail system that would serve far more communities and people with far less negative impacts. If this is supposed to be a nation building project let's make it one that unites the nation instead of creating division and hardship.
Like
Ceegee
Mar 07
I think the people in favour of this high speed train have no land, especially farmland that will be expropriated. If your land was going to be taken from you without having a say, you would not be in favour of this at all.
Like
Jason
Mar 11
Replying to
I own land in the proposed corridor and I am in favour of this project. Think back 100 years when people had to give up land to all the roads we all benefit from.
Like
Jim
Mar 12
Replying to
A 60m wide strip through tens of acres of land isn't "taking your farm". And you would receive fair market rate for that land. And were it me, would be a bit annoying? Sure. But I also understand I'm not the only person who lives in this country. My current home has an easement in the back of my yard to accommodate access for my neighbours. I can't build on it. Is that mildly annoying? Yeah, I guess. But I'm ok with sharing for the greater good.
Like
Eberks
Mar 07
I speak as a land owner of the aposed south Alto train route and can say this speed train will not benefit our community. With no stops for small businesses to flourish from it, protected wetlands, provincial parks and heritage trails destroyed!
Communities and wildlife north will be separated from the south by fencing; unable access to a local hospital, amenities from family & friends is obserd!
To say Alto train will be beneficial to Canadians is plain ignorance to our freedom of rights. Many of my community family and friends are in love with our rural country way of life, that includes No to Alto.
Like
Eva
Mar 14
Replying to
The Alto hsr train stations will not be located in any of the downtown cores of the cities it proposes to connect. No room to add it on. There will likely have to be buses to go downtown and that will negate the advantages it is advertising like speed, fewer emissions and convenience. Building designated, electrified tracks for VIA is a much better solution. The countries that have hsr already have fully integrated and expansive rail networks that allow people to connect to larger and smaller communities. Alto will create the haves and have nots. If you attended the Alto open houses you would know that it is indeed going to sever communities (like ours in Chaffey’s Lock) and not all roads will have over or underpasses which means we will be land locked. It is not going to benefit 60% of Canadians because over 60% of Canadians have no idea this is happening.
Like
Jim
Mar 15
Replying to
Hi Eva,
Alto will be tunneling to Gare Central in Montreal, will be either going to Tremblay (Ottawas current VIA station) or the old Ottawa Union Station downtown, and Union (or attached to Union) in Toronto. For the others, it is better for transit access to not-have Quebec Citys station at Gare du Palais, and for Peterborough/Trois-Rivieres, those stations will be closer to regional transit connections (Trois-Rivieres airport) or downtown-adjacent (Peterborough).
The issue with building electrified VIA track is CN won't allow it. They are now, and have always been the issue. This is putting aside the fact that you can't run HSR on the Kingston Sub without grade separations at every crossing. And on the subdivision, the line goes through towns and cities. Every issue people in rural places claim is happening, would be magnified 100 times to try and bring the Kingston Sub up to spec, not to mention about double the cost. And that's if CN would allow it. Which they won't.
I want to respectfully push back on the idea that this project will split communities. High-speed rail trains cannot interact with roads at-grade. There will not be crossing lights, because any roads that Alto interacts with, they must go over or under. They're going to fast to stop, so it would be a massive safety issue. Same thing for why I say elsewhere they aren't going through towns. It simply isn't feasible from an operational standpoint (or comfort standpoint for residents) for them to do that.If it helps, I don't think Alto will be using the Southern Corridor anyway. There is a nice, big, arrow straight electricity line corridor on the Northern Corridor. You can see it on maps, it's massive and the width (60 meteres) they require for their right-of-way. So I would encourage you to not-worry. I doubt they are coming where you are. But even if they do, they absolutely will not be dissecting your community. Mostly because there's an easier alignment on the southern edge of the Southern Corridor study area and cutting towns in half is not something one does for HSR. Going around is better.
Like
The_Nexus
Feb 25
this is going to be awesome! high speed rail takes much less space than highways and related infrastructure, also while generating so much less emissions per passenger. just imagine, a high speed rail corridor has as much capacity as the largest highway in canada and it doesn't even have traffic! you can watch movies and eat a nice snack while traveling. i'm all for it
Like
Jim
Mar 12
Replying to
If you've been paying attention, then you know that there is a massive difference between HFR and HSR. The consortiums bidding for HFR all said the same thing: No. HSR, or nothing. We should absolutely get upgrades for VIA. Personally, I think it's critical. But that's a separate discussion from should we build HSR. We should do both, it doesn't need to be one or the other.
We received a letter requesting permission to enter our small farm. My husband and I worked hard to purchase a small property that we could raise our family and eventually start a small business. We have not only invested thousands but built a home. We were married on this property, started homesteading and planning to make this home a bussiness as well. We have beloved family pets buried here. Our daughter is being raised here. We use this land to feed our family. We were building something we could be proud of and to pass down to our child. Now we wonder if we should even repair a fence.
Regardless if they only build nearby the vibrations and noise will impact our livestock and quality of life. Animals are extremely sensitive especially birds.
The local multi generational farmers will be severely impacted. The land will be fragmented and potentially cause them to no longer be profitable.
On a financial side it will decrease our property values and the local real estate will be non existent.
On an environmental side we have a river and a creek that run through our property. There are fish, moose, ducks, bald eagles, owls, fox and many other animals that we frequently see on the property. The Alto train would destroy crutial habitats and push wild life away.
This would further impact local fishing and hunting. Game would be stuck on one side or the other limiting breeding and travel.
We have integrated into local Agriculture Societies and community groups. This train does not provide benefits to our municipalities. It would only benefit those who live in large cities. We wouldn’t even have close access to use it.
This train would fragment local population access. It would cause detours and delays for emergency services, school routes and local travel. It would diminish local recreation such as snowmobiling and ATV trails that would be inaccessible.
With the changes made to expropriation laws we wouldn’t even be entitled to a public hearing or prior negotiations. “Fair market” value would not compensate moving ourselves and boarding a large number of animals, construction of new enclosures, inevitable vet bills for the stress caused to these animals and much more. We wouldn’t even be guaranteed to find a comparable property with what they deem as “fair market value”. This is a large missuse of taxpayer funds. Jobs are being cut in hospitals (400 in Ottawa alone). Health care is suffering. People are dying waiting for surgery. Doctors are leaving Canada. Inflation is through the roof making families choose between eating or electricity. The homeless issue is rampant. There is a housing shortage. The wait lists for subsidized housing are so long that people are waiting over ten years without local or special priority. Yet the decision has been made to spend countless billions on a train and not these more important issues. If Ottawa is unable to build a reliable and profitable LRT system how can they promise a reliable and profitably high speed rail system.
I fear the world my daughter will grow up in if this is our priorities. Canada used to be a place to be proud of. Our appointed officials are no longer acting in our best interest and that is beyond scary.
I don't care about these hick farmers and their intergenerational land. Inheriting large parcels of land already create systemic problems in the forms of lobbying and disproportionate political influence. A highspeed rail system connects huge population centers together and incentivizes people away from using their cars and booking flights, all of which is awful for the environment and the air we breathe. We simply can't keep relying on auto transport for everything, its expensive to maintain and build new highways and to own a car. This country continues to build highways and large subdivisions that are bad for ecosystems, but when it's something like a clean rail system its like pulling teeth. Enough, welcome to the 21st century. People on farm land act all high and mighty with their prejudice on "city people" while owning large pieces of land. They are more elite, more privileged than the majority of people who want to use an efficient rail system. Think about the senior who can't drive anymore who wants to visit family, the student who can't afford a car who is going to a new university.
So tired of this "noble farmer" narrative. Canada has been condemned by the UN for contemporary forms of slavery, most of which come from farms, some of which are along this corridor.
It would be a great idea for Alt-No to coordinate support against Pipeline expansion out west hat goes through indigenous lands, and also against the proposed 5% of GDP on military spending going towards larger Navy ships and f-35 jets. Those projects benefit the elite disproportionally even more than Alto!
The research published on this site uses AI-enhanced research tools, with review and validation by both subject-matter experts and non-expert citizens. We are united by a shared commitment to improving transparency and making reliable, evidence-based information available to all stakeholders in the ALTO high-speed rail planning process — landowners, municipalities, policymakers, and the broader public.
I urge everyone who wants to comment for or against this project to read up on it first. There are many things to be learned - it’s a complicated project.
Unfortunately, it seems the same people who are the most vocal about opposing this project are the same ones who opposed vaccine and mask mandates during the pandemic. Using the same conspiratorial language of division. This doesnt bode well if you want to be taken seriously.
Personal impact story. One of the possible routes would run through my backyard. I would be between the trail and the lake with no crossing. The complete north shore of our lake would be cut off. Therefore expropriation. These properties cannot be replaced
I am all for the greater good. However this is not the case. It is for the benefit of the elite at the expense of the rest of us.
1. There is no real business case for the project. The need for the passenger rail system is not evident in terms of use and ridership, and the clear and robust statement of need is essential for such a project to succeed. In other nations the high speed rail (HSR) generally links with local rail networks and other transport systems. This needs to come first, before a HSR system is viable, so helping to improve local networks as well as the existing VIA service and CN's infrastructure is actually a more far sighted approach at this time.
2. All proposed routes for the HSR tracks would cut through sensitive habitats and farmland, which once the work starts are gone forever. The Frontenac arch is especially concerning. The project has potential to obliterate important ecosystems. Environmental studies are scheduled to come after the route choices which is too late for them to have an impact, where only mitigation is then an option. Fertile farmland is scarce in Ontario and disappearing year upon year, which has implications for agricultural outputs and food costs. This project hastens the disappearance.
3. The "models" discussed at the ALTO consultation last week are based on other nations with different infrastructures, climates and cultures. The stations are most often located downtown and these HSR examples do not seem comparable to Canada in many ways. The failed and failing rail projects across the world were not being discussed and the ALTO staff seemed unaware of them. Nearer to home, lessons should be learned from the LRT in Ottawa, which still doesn't function properly, due to the short-sighted "lowest cost compliant" procurement, incompetent placement of contracts and building a first of a kind, untested system in a harsh environment. The HSR is a huge and complex project so decisions need solid information behind them, especially those being made in the early stages where there is still time to change things relatively easily and cheaply. I am concerned that the planning and early development of this project is being rushed, with inadequate public information and discussion. The project schedule, especially this early planning stage, needs to slow down for considered and robust decisions to be made for Canadians.
4. Bill C-15 enables land expropriation for the project to occur swiftly, with no challenges from owners. This seems wrong, especially because this will occur very early in the project, where many of the details are still to be decided. The Pickering and Mirabel airport expropriations come to mind, and the harm it has caused to individuals and communities for little to no benefits. There is a risk of these past situations sadly applying to this HSR project and the expropriation approach needs to be reconsidered
I think the people in favour of this high speed train have no land, especially farmland that will be expropriated. If your land was going to be taken from you without having a say, you would not be in favour of this at all.
I speak as a land owner of the aposed south Alto train route and can say this speed train will not benefit our community. With no stops for small businesses to flourish from it, protected wetlands, provincial parks and heritage trails destroyed!
Communities and wildlife north will be separated from the south by fencing; unable access to a local hospital, amenities from family & friends is obserd!
To say Alto train will be beneficial to Canadians is plain ignorance to our freedom of rights. Many of my community family and friends are in love with our rural country way of life, that includes No to Alto.
this is going to be awesome! high speed rail takes much less space than highways and related infrastructure, also while generating so much less emissions per passenger. just imagine, a high speed rail corridor has as much capacity as the largest highway in canada and it doesn't even have traffic! you can watch movies and eat a nice snack while traveling. i'm all for it